Refuting Bill Still & Ellen Hodgson Brown

#SHOW COMMENTS

In the video below we all clearly see Bill Still merely claiming with unqualified assumptions banks just buy treasury bonds to then create money out of thin air via expansion, or fictional multiplication. Evading the banks very * first crime * before any book entry, & likewise evading the only thing that has consideration of value given up by the “alleged” borrower in any ” alleged ” bank loan to one of us today?

Lets be clear here folks. Bill is not telling you the TWO main reasons why governments sell treasury bonds for irreversible terminal sums of national debt which are as follows ?

1) To unnecessarily borrow (allegedly borrow) back the very same money we formerly created  & paid out of circulation on our personal falsified debts to build infrastructure  & government projects .

2) EVEN WORSE & A FAR GREATER CRIME FOLKS to not only borrow (allegedly borrow) back the very same money we created & paid out of circulation on our personal falsified debts, but to * perpetually reflate * a general circulation that only ever consists of some remaining principal at most, ( Eg; Federal overspending ) where principal & interest we all pay to all local banks ( a theft Bill advocates ) is stolen & laundered out of circulation only to be loaned (allegedly) back as irreversible, terminal sums of artificial debt.

It is clear Bill Still has no authority on monetary reform, because how can we issue money without debt for the benefit of all citizens equally? This man is delusional seriously, because the only way money, or a debt instrument  can be issued even in Bills preposterous  solution will be in an exchange. whether its purportedly loaned, or spent it makes that money a debt upon its very issuance into circulation upon the exchange, which is a DEBT regardless how you look at it , & likewise how on earth does this actually benefit citizens if all local banks are still stealing & laundering circulation ( principal & interest ) giving up no commensurable consideration of their own equal to any alleged loan to one of us ? .

Lincoln , Franklin ,etc didn’t do it successfully because they had no means of accounting to know how much to print & likewise retire to solve inflation & deflation .

Then Bill quotes a federal reserve snake oil salesmen promoting the lie of economy & the * first crime * a bank commits, where the bank loans us money when the banks are only pretending to loan us the principal folks, there is no loan from a bank, there never was. The bank’s only ever purport to loan you the principal that you created only as if it was the banks principal to loan out in the beginning, which is the banks * first crime * , the theft of principal .

Then Bill contradicts his lies by saying the government doesn’t create money, when he actually claimed in the beginning the government first issued  treasury bonds so the banks can then multiply money. Well, logically according to Bill here if the government didn’t issue a bond first the bank cant multiply money, so what process creates the money in the beginning according to Bill? Well, its the treasury bond, which I might add is not only contradictory, but a mere assumption regardless. Claiming all along without proof or qualification expansion is the creation of money, but nevertheless according to Bill is originating from a treasury bond. So once again Bill demonstrates his very own ignorance, simply because its not any bank or treasury bond that creates money, rather its one of us ( WE THE PEOPLE )  before any banking book entry that first issues a promissory obligation, which has the only consideration of value in any ” alleged ” loan from any bank,, before fictional expansion , before publication & before any resulting bond issued by any criminal government to play their part in perpetually laundering already stolen money back into circulation.

Now If I can prove with logic alone only the principal is created by one of us by signing & issuing a promissory obligation / note * before any banking book entry * when we ” allegedly ” borrow principal from a local bank , how can fractional multiplication thereafter ” allegedly ” multiply principal when either way here from the outset of the promissory obligation principal is only ever issued into circulation for what it is intended to represent , EG : A house for example, upon a sale or purchase of property?

However Bills deception doesn’t stop there folks.  Bill then replays parts of his secret of oz video promoting further lies of economy, falsely claiming there is a loan from a mere publisher, who I might add gives up no consideration of value equivalent to the debt they falsify to themselves in the form of a purported loan & then charging us unwarranted interest for the privilege of being robbed of sum of principal in the first place, & to top it all off, Bill’s throwing in pictures of hungry African Negro’s in a feeble attempt to pull the heart strings of the viewer, while all along deceiving the viewer with unqualified assumptions & bare faced LIES .

Here again Bill Still is telling everyone if a government couldn’t borrow money they will  have to raise taxes immediately, where  he just indicated that raised taxes will be immediate in his purported solution, didn’t he NOW? Evading how money has to be rightfully retired equal to the money spent to solve circulatory inflation, or prevent too much money circulating . Then bill merely  assumes in his phony solution without proof or qualification the local banks can just give up consideration of value of their own, or risk property of their own equal to the a debt purportedly loaned to a so called borrower.

In reality folks the local banks would be risking nothing of their own just like today, only ever PRETENDING TO BE THE TRUE CREDITOR , then Bill continues not only evading the banks * first crime * which is a crime he actually promotes in his purported solution, where the bank steals principal in a purported loan, only as if it was the banks principal value to loan out in the beginning , yet Bill is totally evading  the banks * second crime *  imposed on one of us in ” unwarranted interest ” that we would be paying to these criminal banks, only as if the criminal banks risked something of value  of their own that might justify Interest, or justify the banks current unearned profit taking that perpetually  depletes a general circulation, which is a circulation that only ever consists of some remaining principal at the very most regardless .

Essentially what you would really have in Bills purported solution is out of control inflation & deflation imposed by a gargantuan government, spending & taxing money like there’s no tomorrow just to keep these criminal ground floor  banks afloat which have been stealing from us for centuries now, where Bill is once again totally evading the banks purposed obfuscation of our promissory obligations ( money creation ) we have to each other ( not that we have to any thieving bank [public or private] who risks jack of their own )

Moreover HERE we see Bill Still officially NOW  off the rails, openly admitting he is prepared to bribe American congressmen with 50 million in cash  & 1 million there after  for every year to Introduce his preposterous solution .

HERE According to Bill a representative government just creating money ” purportedly out of thin air ” is apparently sovereign money, but the question I ask is how on earth can this be possibly sovereign money in the slightest if banks ” public or private ” are stealing from a would be sovereign, when they’re only ever pretending to lend this money, which is nothing more than publishing further representations of our promissory obligations we really have to each other regardless, so one may first earn & then deposit this stolen money in a bank so a bank can then pretend to loan depositors money , stealing even further of our labour & production.

Moreover  Bill cant even see the inherent volumetric impropriety ” circulatory deflation ” caused by interest on the remaining volume of circulation, let alone the resulting price inflation as a consequence that will still persist to exist regardless ,even if a government did pull the sum of interest out of thin air or out of hat , which is mathematically impossible I might add , yet nevertheless spend , or purportedly loan back into circulation above the sum of principal, which is formerly stolen. Essentially giving you a gargantuan government completely & utterly out of control, spending & taxing all this money like there is no tomorrow, much like today regardless of national debt. Spending it as perpetual reflation on public infrastructure we may not even necessarily need & quite possibly giving even bigger sweet heart deals to the very same criminals who perpetuate the crimes against us today.

Firstly logic tells us it’s the people (obligor) who creates all new money (principal only) by issuing a promissory obligation before the banks ledger entry in any purported loan, much less is the sum of interest ever created or issued into circulation above the sum of principal, so logically the creation of money comes before the sum of principal is even purportedly lent and or even subsequently spent into circulation, so in this respect its rationally impossible to suggest anyone else other than the true creditor who actually gives up property in an exchange for a promise can deposit that money in the bank without the true creditor subsequently spending that money further into circulation so someone else can earn and deposit that money in a bank so a bank can in turn presumably  have enough reserves of deposits money to  loan what has already purportedly loaned out in the first place anyhow. So the crux of the matter here why would you or I re-borrow what has already been allegedly loaned and deposited, and why on earth would you want to borrow depositors money when you have always created a sum of principal to pay for something in full before its even subsequently deposited in a bank.

To assume a bank can possibly have a full reserve to otherwise purport to loan out is basically putting the cart before the horse here that makes no rational sense at the end of the day, its not only mathematically impossible because banks have never risked or given up commensurable consideration of value in the entire history of banking, but its rationally impossible, simply because the promise (money) is created by the obligor before it can be physically deposited in a bank to pay a debt, where the true creditor who actually gives up property is always paid in full from the outset of the obligor’s promissory obligation regardless.

Therefore to even remotely suggest a bank can have a reserve you have to rationally justify a loan has transpired from a real creditor when you (obligor) have already paid the real creditor in full for receiving property, so the logical question begs to be asked is how can the true creditor rationally lend money that hasn’t yet even been deposited in their bank account, and how is this rationally or even ethically a loan where there clearly never has been any loan from a bank or its depositors, not even from the true creditor who gives up property that cant possibly justify paying the principal debt to a bank, much less would it even justify paying any sum interest to any bank or its depositors either, not even under the banks purposed obfuscation of our promissory obligations *to each other*, so why would anyone irrationally believe banks have, or ever can loan out depositors money when no such thing has ever transpired in the entire history of banking or ever will transpire for that matter, when it always has been mathematically and rationally impossible.

Furthermore if anyone was to irrationally believe a government treasury can just create money by simply issuing bonds you would have to rationally justify that creation by proving and demonstrating what exactly and who exactly is risking or giving up consideration of commensurable value in the issuance of these bonds that are otherwise sold today to instead re-borrow (allegedly borrow [launder]) already stolen money formerly created by the people in their personal falsified debts back into circulation again in perpetual cycles of reflation, or be it an irreversible multiplication of federal debt caused by the volumetric impropriety of unwarranted interest imposed on all our personal falsified debts in the first place.

Logic alone tell us the interest paid on all our personal falsified debts is monumental in comparison to what a bank pays in interest on savings deposits, so what banks pay in interest on deposits today is only a fraction of 1% of which they formerly steal in principal and interest when we purport to pay back a purported loan from a bank, which is nevertheless perpetually re-borrowed (purportedly borrowed [laundered]) back into circulation again as an irreversible multiplication of federal debt, so why would anyone of sound mind ever conclude interest is beneficial to any economy when one would be considerably better off paying no interest whatsoever, for the crumbs paid in interest on deposits is exiguous in comparison to say the least if you likewise take into consideration the interest you all personally pay can only ever artificially inflate prices into oblivion to steal all that much further from us , not to mention the resulting yet unwarranted taxation imposed (political extortion) to service this ever escalation of federal debt that’s mathematically impossible to pay down.

Its a fact the only lawful Issuance of a promissory note is by the actual creator of money, or signatory of a contract / promissory obligation who gives up value , however when  you see a representative government or any thieving bank pretending to loan further representations of what they themselves don’t risk or even give up in the actual creation of money that’s when a representative government has stepped directly into the shoes of the banker , exploiter or THIEF .

Bill is even deluded into believing its not important what backs money (PRESERVING THE LIE MONEY IS CREATED OUT OF THIN AIR) but according to Bill all that matters is who controls the quantity, however Bill is totally evading the fact all money is a further representation of our labour & production we give up to each other, which in fact is the true intrinsic value backing all money for what it represents , & of course subsequently stolen by those ” all banks NO exceptions ” who currently control the quantity, or be it a lack of quantity of money today, & to deny the matter of a THEFT of our labour & production here, or to even remotely suggest the true value matters not can only likewise suggest Bill is evading a monumental crime of theft is taking place today, which is nothing but an attempt to preserve the theft of that quantity, which in turn represents the true value of our labour & production regardless , even when a bank or mere publisher ” public or private ”  pretends to loan money, which is a crime Bill clearly advocates , much worse  to suggest we should be bribing political betrayers to step directly into the shoes of a bank or THIEF, only to continue the very same crime against us, regardless if a representative government purports to loan what it spends or not, more the fool who follows this man in blind faith for he wants nothing more but to preserve banking exploitation.

Here we see Ellen Brown suggesting ” county banks ” are the solution, which are  public local banks purportedly funded with state revenue or state taxes, so in other words these banks will be funded by a means of extortion , which  is a form of communism according to Bill Sill.  These charlatans are contradictory in every respect, who  are clearly out to confuse & divide people with unqualified assumptions & OUT RIGHT LIES that don’t even make rudimentary sense .

Seriously folks how can one not prove title when people  have an account that says they paid 2 houses for receiving 1 house , in retrospect people should have 2 titles if you look at what they may have paid in principal & interest, only to have the value of two homes stolen in your production, furthermore one can clearly hear the key words of deception used ” BIG BANKS ” which in fact points everyone away from MPE that identifies its ALL BANKS including small banks or local banks who are the very hand that steals from all of us today, & not only that, we have a host saying what Ellen Brown is saying makes perfect sense. Its quite clear to me common sense is not so common, nor is this type of insane irrationality even remotely perfect .

In Ellen brown’s Response to Mike Montagne  we also see her assertion that assumes a sum of interest can be spent into circulation by a representative government  , however I would like to point out here Ellen fails to identify that a government cant just publish & spend that sum of interest, much less the principal unless one of us creates it first only ever as a sum of principal purporting to loan that sum of principal  from a local bank, so in short here, its not only mathematically impossible for any publisher or bank to spend any sum of interest because banks or mere publishers of money public or private don’t give up consideration of value commensurable to any loan, but likewise what Ellen is suggesting is nothing but further exploitation Its a further obfuscation & purposed misrepresentation of our promissory obligations we have to each other .

The unwarranted interest we pay today on a purported mortgage for example is compound contrary to Ellen’s simple example of $5 interest on $100 purported loan, when realistically the sum paid to a bank on our personal but falsified debt would be $200 , particularly mortgages paid  to the order of 2x the principal , paid out of a circulation that’s only ever comprised of some remaining principal at most, that was only purportedly loaned into circulation from the get go . See a banks Loan repayment calculator where its clearly obvious this is the case.

Now If Ellen believes a government can just publish, loan & or spend what we all pay out of circulation to local banks in principal & interest it would logically mean  those of us who have a purported loan from a local bank would have to likewise then be directly working for the government or the bank somehow, which is quite unrealistic & a preposterous suggestion to say the least folks , where of course all of us with purported loans cant possibly work for government or banks, so as to earn back the principal & interest that has formerly been stolen folks, unless Ellen & Bill are suggesting  a total  dismantling or destruction of all private enterprise, possibly with the exception of thieving  banks that currently interface with the people, that can only continue stealing from us regardless whether these banks are public or private.

Likewise Ellen fails to identify any sum of interest we pay out of circulation on purported loans is the very cause of price inflation on a whole, it always has since the very conception of banking. I mean its not rocket science that tells us  the interest industry & commerce pays on their very own falsified debts  is logically an added cost passed onto the consumer in the resulting  cost of goods & services , contrary the lie of economy taught in schools & universities, which  merely assumes without formal proof or qualification  that price inflation is solely caused by a volume of circulation that’s above the initial principal cost of goods & services , when in fact this very assertion is a not only a contraction, but itself a LIE, simply because 2nd grade math tells us so long as we are paying any sum of interest on our falsified  debts the price of goods & services  can only artificially escalate, where increasing prices does not equate to increasing value or growth at all , not while the true value is really being stolen, X2 by all banks, which includes the Pennsylvania bank.

Contrary to the lies of economy propagated by so many today, nowhere in the entire recorded history of banking is there formal proof or evidence of circulatory inflation, not even hyperinflation, not so long as we the people are paying principal & interest out of a circulation that’s only ever comprised of some remaining principal at most,  not even on perpetual cycles of reflation today, or what is an irreversible multiplication of artificial debt, where the remaining volume of circulation never ever exceeds the cost of all goods & services .

Price inflation on whole has always preceded re-denomination, which is the end result & very evidence of not only devaluation of our production, only artificially inflated by interest,   but its a direct result of a theft of that value, where the remaining volume of principal in circulation has actually lost its value per represented property value & WHY one may ask ?

Simply because your paying more out of the * existing or remaining * volume of circulation per represented property value , NOT paying more out of an * increasing * volume of circulation per represented property value.

Now In all seriousness even if interest is ” allegedly” spent into circulation as Ellen & many other pretenders suggest why even impose a sum of interest on a falsified debt to begin with? when your only ever spending principal from the outset of any purported loan,  unless your a thief of course who wants to falsify a debt to yourself pretending to loan money, or as Ellen suggests to fund government spending .

Well the question I ask is why do we then have to pay twice the value of a house to fund a gargantuan government who is not only giving up no consideration of value of their own in publication only pretending to create money, but in turn perpetually spending & or purportedly loaning this money back into circulation like there is no tomorrow to perpetually re-inflate circulation,  or as Ellen suggests spending it on  wages in the public sector, which can only be exorbitant to say the least , even spending it on infrastructure we may not even necessarily need, perpetually then re-inflating circulation over & over as we the people perpetually pay it out of circulation over & over  ” principal & interest ” on all our personal but falsified debts to local banks, all along then artificially inflating prices in the process regardless.

If Interest is the inherent fault that not only artificially inflates prices & it does ,but likewise irreversibly multiplies artificial debt today, which It does, why not eradicate interest altogether & rectify today’s falsified debt into what a debt ought to rightfully be, were those of us who actually give up consideration of value  pay & rightfully retire only the principal we create at the rate of our consumption, solving then inflation & deflation altogether  , rather than trying desperately to no avail, only ever irrationally attempting to preserve the crime of banking, which is nothing more than an attempt to justify  the very hand that steals from all of us.

I appeal to anyone reading this please if we comply with a *purported full reserve bank * , public or private it matters not ,  we may well lose our right & ability to issue a promissory obligation ( money creation ) altogether, & totally lose our true representation of wealth to each other for good , remember if you agree to a full reserve bank (  mathematically impossible ) you will be nonetheless handing our actual contract right to create money over to the criminals & thieves who have & still are misrepresenting our promissory obligations we  have to each other, & you will be essentially duped into handing over this last right by your very own free will to those who are already deceiving & stealing from us all today.

I formally then challenge, ” Bill Still ” or ” Ellen Brown ” to debate on TNS radio.

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12 thoughts on “Refuting Bill Still & Ellen Hodgson Brown”

  1. I stopped reading after fairly short into this. Systematically attacking bits and peices of Bill Still’s research completely fails to discredit or refute anything. Bill’s work is the real deal. Its historically correct and explains the big picture of just about every major event of the last 600 years on this planet. If you think your gonna go anywhere with systematic bit and peice attacks like a lawyer in a court room. Good Luck you’re gonna need a hell of a lot more then that to re-write history.

    • Read what you have written thenickelphonex?

      1) You first admit you haven’t read all that I have written.

      2) You then blindly conclude this is attacking Bill Still.

      3) You irrationally deduce I’m failing to refute or discredit Bills Stills research.

      4) You did not prove or demonstrate what I have written is not refuting or discrediting Bill Still.

      You have only demonstrated so far you’re someone with an intellectual disability & clearly incapable of thinking for yourself when presented with new information. All you have done is discredit your own credibility with your own words & actions as has Bill Still.

      I will approve your comment & leave my subsequent reply as a message to anyone else who thinks they can just come here & blindly make some insane irrational conclusion without information to the contrary otherwise disapproving what I have already written, so if anyone else decides to do likewise I’m not even going to waste my time replying anymore, much less approving a comment that has no credibility whatsoever.

  2. Jonesansen said:

    I came to this website after discovering Bill’s work on central banking. His work is so convincing and moving that I owed it to myself to seek out alternate viewpoints before believing that the picture he is painting is true.

    The work you have laid out on this webpage is very poor in its ability to communicate concepts or factual points. Your sentence structure is inarticulate and rambling. Your choice of vocabulary lays bare your anger and naked aggression towards Bill. If your arguments were sound you would not resort to calling Bill’s arguments LIES in all capitals. Your formatting errors and decidedly sloppy writing further paint you as an unqualified participant in this debate. Your anger and self-confidence really shine through here, obscuring whatever valid points you may think you have.

    Again, I have come here looking for counterpoints to Bill’s seemingly strong arguments. Your convoluted and vitriolic argument, laden with hyperbole, does more to convince me that Bill’s viewpoint is worth researching. If you wish for a truly interested outside party to learn from your viewpoints, which you believe to be correct and authoritative, you must readjust your unbridled manner of arguing. From here it looks like a tantrum of sorts, peppered with poorly articulated concepts that may well be a check to Bill’s assertions, but ultimately lacking focus or succinctness.

    My journey for legitimate counterpoints continues.

    • Gday Jonesansen

      Thank you for your opinion of dissent, however it doesn’t change the facts I present here on this particular post ( comment replies inclusive) & my entire web site for that matter , & to be frank if you cant refute what I have written here on this post, or anywhere else on my web site I suggest you come back when you actually can, instead of suggesting without proof or qualification I’m just attacking Bill Still in some tantrum of sorts without presenting facts that can be readily proven with rudimentary logic & second grade math , when at the end of the day I’m merely defending the truth from lies that can only preserve a monumental crime of theft , possibly even exposing Bill Still for the charlatan he really is in attacking a truth with bare faced lies & unqualified assumptions, now there’s a thought, so please by all means don’t let my passion blind you to the facts I present.

      I mean if you find it difficult to comprehend what I present would it not be rational to ask specific questions of uncertainty before you make the assumptions?

      So lets break the truth down for the dummies Bill Still is PURPOSELY misleading shall we ?

      1) We the people create all money (principal only) when we issue a promissory obligation or note, before any banking book entry ,when banks purport to personally loan us money .

      2) All banks that interface with the people (no exceptions) steal that money, ” X2 “due to unwarranted interest, when they pretend to loan a sum of principal to the people.

      3) All the banks interfacing with the people steal & launder ” principal+interest “out of a circulation only ever comprised of some remaining ” principal “at most, causing a volumetric impropriety ( shortage ) in circulation.

      4) Due to the volumetric impropriety of interest we the people ( not any government) pay out of circulation on all our personal falsified debts to banks governments have to issue bonds as means to re-borrow that same money formerly stolen from we the people in phony loans, so as to reflate the volume of circulation in subsequent federal spending, therefore bonds are not the creation of money, never have, not even via a central bank PERIOD, & its a bare faced LIE to suggest otherwise, simply because neither the governemt or any bank gives up commensurable consideration of value.

      5) Perpetual reflation via the issuance of bonds dedicates an ever greater volume of an already deficient circulation to service an ever escalation of artificial debt ” public & private “, which is irreversibly multiplying our personal falsified debts to banks into terminal sums of artificial debt via federal debt, which never ever ever ever increases a volume of circulation over & above the initial principal cost of all goods & services mind you.

      6) All taxation is paid either directly or indirectly into the banks coffers to service a irreversible multiplication of federal debt, contrary to the unqualified assumption or LIE that asserts taxation pays for public infrastructure, such as schools, roads, hospitals, war etc.

      7) QE is not printing any further money, contrary to the LIE asserting it does, its instead generally a central bank pouring already stolen money back into their own pockets at phenomenal rate, bypassing the federal debt process & the people altogether only to temporally solve inter-banking debt, that’s ultimately owed ( allegedly ) to a Central bank ( mere publisher ) anyhow, simply because industry & commerce can no longer service that inter-banking debt via their own falsified debts, due to the volumetric impropriety of interest the people are personally paying of course ( artificial price inflation ).

      8) Bailouts via Federal debt however irreversibly multiplies artificial debt even further when a federal government is servicing the inter-banking debt purportedly owed to a central bank, due to industry & commerce failing to service that inter-banking debt via their own falsified debts because of the volumetric impropriety of interest the people personally pay ( artificial price inflation ).

      9) No bank on this earth can print or publish any money without one of us signing & issuing a promissory obligation first, before the book entry , before mere publication , & long before any bond can be issued by political betrayers only to launder already stolen money back into a circulation as irreversible multiplications of artificial debt.

      10) Concluding the misrepresentation of the obligors (alleged borrower) issuance of money doesn’t mean the bank is issuing anything else but a further representation of that issuance of a promissory obligation. A mere publisher of money, whether its publicly run at cost only by a representative government, or privately run for legitimate earned profit can do no more than publish further representations of our personal, yet “PRIVATE“ issuance’s of the promissory obligations we really have to each other regardless , for there is only one issuance & that is an issuance of a promissory obligation or note that always, always, always comes before any publication of money or any bond , once again if banks don’t create or even loan money & they don’t , why would we irrationally assume a bank is issuing the money we the people formerly issue, create & give value , why would we then irrationally assume the bank or mere publisher is purportedly issuing money, when they’re doing no more than publishing further representations of our “PRIVATE” issuance of promissory obligations we have to each other, why then do we irrationally push the LIE a publisher or bank can even create & issue money unless we are IGNORANTLY suggesting a bank or mere publisher, whether its public or private is giving up commensurable consideration of value, either in the banks purported issuance or mere publication of money, or in any purported loan to one of us?

      You can either start thinking like true sovereigns, or you can choose conventional communism ” public banking ” under the same old kleptocracy ( rule by thieves )

      David Ardron.
      Advocate / mentor, Co-founder, Co-director – Mathematically Perfected Economy™ (AU)

      My web site by the way.
      https://australia4mpe.wordpress.com/

  3. I think I see the problem here ….. you’re so full of shit that you can’t see straight, nor think straight.
    You’ve been telling yourself how fucking clever you are all these years that you’re sure you can’t possibly be wrong about even one little thing like debt free money.
    So I ask for a vid on debt free money and I get this repetitive diatribe.
    You do to me what I pointed out you did to Still and Brown.

    1. Did I say the FR was ether federal or had reserves? …..NO !
    You just write SHIT. All that follows has no meaning.

    2. Bill is an authority on reform, and he does not do the things you say he does, to wit:
    He does not advocate that banks lend us money, he’s been advocating for ending that for about 30 years, and thus your second point is even more baseless. You are full of shit, Mike.

    3. HA HA !! You don’t even KNOW what seigniorage is, FCS.
    “”making government income via unwarranted taxation (seigniorage) a THEFT””
    You ought to do some basic reading on monetary SCIENCE.
    Again, it’s the opposite.

    4. Of course all government spending today is funded by (artificial?) debt. All money is debt, and the Guv doesn’t issue any money, so the government USES the private debt money system. We agree.
    So, WHAT?

    5. A government spending money into existence is not paying a debt, merely closing a transaction. I gave you the source for legal definitions of things monetary and you remain in your glass bubble of Mike Montagne reality that has NOTHING to do with the real world. If Mike Montaggne wants to be the smartest kid in his world, then just keep on with this inane intellectual masturbation…… in the best sense of the word.
    You make no sense whatever, here, Mike. None.

    Link 1 Rebuttal
    I read the Credit River Decision over thirty years ago as a much younger student, so I’m hip to the ‘no consideration’ in a ‘credit-creation’ bank loan. We agree.
    So, what? Obviously you never read that first link, because Soddy agrees with you, also.
    That’s why he, and Bill and I, want to end fractional-reserve banking.

    “”banking simply cant exist if they didn’t charge interest & to suggest it can is irrational,””
    Here’s another of those asinine, baseless statements by Mike Montagne.
    Did I say banks could exist without charging interest ? No.
    You conjure this shit up and try to make it your currency.
    You’re full of shit, Mike.
    How many times are you going to let me say that, without challenging me to a radio interview, or at MINIMUM a video that shows you know ANYTHING about debt-free money?

    2nd link ‘rebuttal’
    All I can is that if there ARE any readers here that they inform themselves FIRST by actually reading that link.
    Rather than address ANYTHING that Dr. Yamaguchi points out as a result of his macro-economic modeling, which AGAIN in his base case comes to the same conclusions as you do before you go for a “mathematically-perfected’ plunge off the phuqueing rails. you start right in with a bunch of Crap-a-la-Montagne.
    Like this
    “”concluding your advocating THEFT in your irrational assertion pertaining to debt free money , so in fact I do know what “debt free ” money is , that being a LIE perpetuated on a monumental scale in an attempt to preserve the crime of banking, that being the banks very first crime at least.””
    That’s another phuquing Mike Montagne lie, or the deepest phuqueing ignorance ANYONE has ever displayed about debt-free money, a Montagne construct being the TOTAL phuqueing OPPOSITE of what deb-free money is.

    SO there’s two barrels right BACKATCHA. In spades.
    You don’t now shit, Mike.
    You gonna challenge me to a skyped radio-debate, or NOT?
    You gonna do a video to show us what yoy know about debt-free money, or not?
    Anything else is inane bullshit Bullying from the mathematically-perfected Montagne Pulpit.
    I am ready.

    • 1) Fractional reserve is to suggests banks have reserves or the money existed prior to someone walking into a bank purporting to loan money , neither do the federal or peripheral banks have reserves, other than whats in the process of laundering money out of circulation only to loan it back as federal debt.

      One more time for the dummies shall we. If I can prove with logic alone ” AND I CAN ” only the principal is created by one of us by signing & issuing a promissory obligation / note * before any banking book entry * when we ” allegedly ” borrow principal from a local bank , how can fractional multiplication thereafter ” allegedly ” multiply principal when either way here from the outset of the promissory obligation principal is only ever issued into circulation for what it is intended to represent , EG : A house , upon a sale or purchase of property?

      2) Apart from every reply not only on youtube & here , the video in my former reply dismisses the lie asserting money can be free from debt .

      3) Do your homework , bill indeed does advocate banks lend us money at interest , yet he doesn’t advocate federal borrowing nor at interest, if its good enough for the goose its good enough for the gander but this not what he advocates sadly .

      4) Did you personally write banks can exist without interest ? NO, however your quoting publications that do.

      5) Refresh the page, I articulated further in my reply what seigniorage is , its making government income via unwarranted taxation, well a form of taxation which is a theft nevertheless , even seigniorage is a theft little do you comprehend , if it costs a government $0.05 to publish a $1 bill, the seigniorage is $0.95, therefore the $0.95 is nothing short of a theft ,much like central banks steal today when they publish further representations of our promissory obligations, only to get that $0.05 back in a mere fraction of the first payment by the alleged borrower, this alone proves your advocating THEFT mate , which is the very same crime banks are committing today , sadly the truth of the matter here your double barrel has backfired in your face ,in spades if you like.

      6) To know what money is , how its truly created & what it truly represents is to know money cant possibly be debt free , its oxymoron to suggest it can because I have already proven exhaustively money pays a debt regardless if a government prints it or not.

      7) Dr. Yamaguchi points out banks make loans , does he not ? Im sorry that alone is incorrect.

      8) Again I suggest you learn the essentials of contract law , its not difficult if you apply yourself rubbing a couple of brain cells together , thats if you have second to rub against the first, now If you cant prove & demonstrate what consideration of value a bank or any publisher of money ( public or private ) gives up themselves , either when they purport to create or purport to loan money you have no argument to the contrary inferring its a lie to suggest banks don’t give up commensurable consideration, because you cant prove otherwise , yet I can easily prove with logic alone the people give up consideration of value cant I now , yet you cant prove or demonstrate what consideration a bank risks or gives up of their own right ? so you irrationally assume without any proof or qualification whatsoever that banks simply don’t commit a crime of theft or what is purposed obfuscation of our promissory obligations we have to each other, in turn irrationally denying the banks first crime of theft .

      Concluding your clutching at straws now , not only attempting to play me & the reader for a fool , but insulting my intelligence at the same time, your nothing but a time waster mate, its quite clear you already have no intention to rationally debate, because you have proven this is the case in your very own words already ,actually you lost the debate long before you begun & all this is an attempt to play me for a fool, all along confusing the reader or listener with your irrational contradictory assumptions , as if an audio is going to qualify what you have already written.

      For the record I’m not Mike Montagne, because if you actually read my replies or remotely studied this blog you would conclude my name is David Ardron. Advocate / mentor, Co-founder, Co-director – Mathematically Perfected Economy™ ( AU ), & as if I’m bullying you, this is an absurd suggestion to say the least when its self inflicted on your behalf, & don’t think I haven’t already been faced with this cowardly tactic after one looses a debate ( crying attack ) only to gain the support of the ignorant , after all , all I’m doing is defending an irrefutable truth here, not attacking you , if anything it is you who is attacking a truth with unqualified assumptions & lies you can neither prove or rationally qualify ,I mean seriously anyone would have to be clinically insane to deny MPE , however if its a debate you want with mike there is enough here already in your own words & likewise on pootube he can crucify you with as I have done already of course, it appears your a right sucker for your own punishment hey? one would have to be a fool to get into the ring with me for starters , but one would have to be an even greater fool to get into the ring with mike. he he .

      Contact mike montagne the author of MPE™ ( U.S )
      Email:mike.montagne@perfectedeconomy.org
      Skype ID: pfmpe2012

  4. I just watched this Bill Still video that you’re ripping and I think it was very well done, with one exception.
    That relationship between the bank buying the Guv bond and then using THAT bond to lend 10 times more.
    That was an error. It may have been said in an effort to simplify the relationship of the fraction of reserves held under fractional reserve lending. Like they did in Modern Money Mechanics.
    It’s wrong for several reasons, but mainly if the bank had the $100 to buy the bond, it had all it needed in cash-equity against making the loans. Bank didn’t need to buy the bond, except for security and to get the interest payment.
    So, if you take the unnecessary Guv bond out of the equation, there is no investment getting 1000 percent return. It’s just bankers, doing their shite. Making a bundle.
    “” It is clear bill still has no authority on monetary reform because how can we issue money without debt for the benefit of all citizens equally?”” Whoa. Question mark !!

    “for the benefit of all citizens equally’, is a total construct of YOURS, not Bills.
    Who even knows what that means?
    You got a whacked out view of government money creation.
    It’s all law and accounting.
    After the law, the Guv budget becomes spending on one side, and taxes and seigniorage income on the other.
    That seigniorage income replaces the debt-issuance of recent times, and then BECOMES money creation when the government spends its budget. Click, its in the bank. And the bank and recipient can decide what to do with it.
    IF you get that, then use that understanding as a basis for criticizing debt-free money.
    The only valid criticism of anything can come after understanding what is being criticized.
    Right now, you obviously have no idea what debt-free money IS.
    Read Soddy’s “The Role of Money”.
    http://archive.org/stream/roleofmoney032861mbp/roleofmoney032861mbp_djvu.txt
    Criticize that.
    Read Dr. Yamaguchi’s public money modeling results.
    http://monetary.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/DesignOpenMacro.pdf
    Criticize that.

    First, understand. Then, criticize.
    For all the truth there is in your writings, this debt-free money thing makes it a bit foggy.

    • 1) You assume the federal reserve has reserves , yet the fed is neither federal or a reserve , when they are perpetually re-inflating a however deficient circulation with irreversible multiplications of artificial debt due to unwarranted interest imposed on our falsified debts to local banks .

      2) Bill has no authority on monetary reform because he advocates the banks first crime when they purport to loan us money, let alone his advocation of the banks second crime of unwarranted interest on our very own personal but falsified debts to banks , therefore its not a matter of unqualified opinion its a matter of a construct of principle based on fact.

      3) On the contrary, your misinterpretation of a whacked out view relating to a government actually creating money is to infer the representative government are giving up consideration of value in the creation of money when all they can do is publish further representations of our promissory obligations we have to each other, making the people the true issuers & creators of money for it is the people in a private capacity as private individuals the only ones who give up the value, making government income via unwarranted taxation a theft, or even seigniorage for that matter, if it costs a government $0.05 to publish a $1 bill, the seigniorage is $0.95, therefore the $0.95 is nothing short of a theft much like central banks steal today , only to perpetually re-inflate a however deficient circulation due to the ground floor theft of principal & interest we the people pay on our very own falsified debts ,while all along we suffer artificial price inflation , regardless if federal debt exists or not due to that very interest we the people pay, on our personal but private falsified debts to local banks.

      4) All spending by government representatives today is from an irreversible multiplication of artificial debt , or federal debt , taxes however is either paid directly or indirectly into the banks coffers to service this ever escalating sum of artificial debt, yet mathematically impossible to pay down because the people are paying a sum of interest above the sum of principal on their very own falsified debts to banks .

      5) A government spending money without the disposition of banking is still paying a debt on behalf of the people , therefore its paying a principal debt only , in return for another’s production , often private individuals who are building public infrastructure in return for the production of other private individuals who may consume of that public infrastructure, therefore warranted taxation paid by the people is to merely rightfully retire what is paid in taxation as the people consume of public infrastructure , its what a good government facilitates , which is taxation thats not the property of anyone to keep , not any bank or government for that matter, much less would a good government use taxation as a further theft ( extortion ) only to spend or pretend to lend ( launder ) it back again into circulation over & over as means of perpetual re-inflation in an attempt to preserve the ground floor theft when banks pretend to loan us a sum of principal & charge us interest for the privilege of being robbed , yet again you are deluded in regards to money & debt, aren’t you now , because ” debt free money ” is a rational impossibility , simply because money not only pays a debt , but it likewise records & evidences a debt, regardless if banks intervene on our commerce or not , there still remains an underpinning true debt or obligation we really have to each other, that most if not all pretenders & phony economists evade in an attempt to preserve the crime of banking, whether its the banks first & or the second crime of theft.

      *Rebutting your first link*
      Banks don’t make loans nor is there any evidence here that they give up consideration of value of their own when they purport to create or loan money

      Credit is not the money , nor is it bank money, cheque money or otherwise , credit is the collateral value a true creditor gives up in any exchange or debt , where if there was no such intervention by a purported lender there is otherwise no loans or borrowing & as a result there is likewise no interest , banking simply cant exist if they didn’t charge interest & to suggest it can is irrational, because not only your omitting the banks very first crime of theft pretending to loan a sum of principal to begin with, but you fail to rationally conclude interest is imposed only ” AS IF ” banks risked or gave up consideration of value, or as result of the banks first crime, either in the creation of money or any purported loan to one of us.

      *Rebutting your second link*
      To suggest loans are made regardless if interest is imposed or not is committing the banks first crime regardless, that being a theft of principal value by a purported lender giving up no consideration of value themselves , either in their purported creation of money or in any purported loan to one of us , concluding your advocating THEFT in your irrational assertion pertaining to debt free money , so in fact I do know what “debt free ” money is , that being a LIE perpetuated on a monumental scale in an attempt to preserve the crime of banking, that being the banks very first crime at least , which is in fact an attempt to preserve the banks purposed obfuscation of our very own promissory obligations we have to each other.

      Point blank , double barrel in your face ,I don’t blindly stand under or submit to theft such as yourself & the pretenders your citing, thus defending these pretenders from my very words , which are indeed words based on principle & fact you clearly refuse to come to terms with any rationality .

      I conclude I comprehend what is theft & what is not & damn well proving so, holding all accountable who wish to preserve theft, whom are not just my enemy ,but yours also, including yourself .

  5. You are a word-smithing manipulator of other people’s words.
    Your only justice would be an in-kind act on your own ‘apparent’ contradictions.
    In case you were absent that day, this thing here in parens ( . ) <—— is a period.
    If you could learn its purpose, you would make a lot more sense.

    • Yet you make these mere unqualified assumptions convicting me of something you refuse to comprehend , which neither have you articulated ,proven or demonstrated in your convictions, not here, or even on youtube .

      For the record & for those who are reading I have taken a screen shot ( updated ) of this fellows conversation with me on youtube so you can see what has already transpired.

      The video in question.

  6. tom kearney said:

    An admission from Bank of England: Download the Bank of England ‘Quarterly Bulletin 2014 Q1’, for their admission concerning the ‘Creation of Money’.

    • Gday Tom

      I believe the BOE has admitted to nothing but further unqualified assumptions to point you & everyone away from the hand that steals from us, for beginners banks don’t create or loan money , they never have, regardless what they’re purportedly admitting in utter contradiction , nevertheless See my reply ( below ) to a comment on the following video 2 days ago in regards to this matter.



      Indeed, I have to agree banks don’t create money , nor do they loan anything of commensurable value themselves , I mean, how does how much cash the banks keep in reserves or rather lets put this into perspective here shall we ,, ” how much cash can possibly be in circulation at one time ” ,which is no more than 3 to 7% of the entire monetary base , so how does this cash actually relate to levels of interest rates when any sum of interest paid to a bank, whether it be cash or digits on a ledger or computer is only ever comprised of some remaining principal at most ?

      To even remotely suggest or infer the volume of cash is suffice or even carries the shortfall of interest paid out of circulation on our falsified debts is not only failing second grade mathematics, its likewise failing all rational intellect . This wally is just talking unqualified waffle failing all along to articulate how the local banks steal & launder the represented value we the people can only give to all money & property .

      Quantitative easing does not print or publish more money , rather they , the banks are pouring all this already stolen money back into their own pockets via a further means of a banks money laundering process, hence the rather loose, but obscure term this fellow uses “increasing reserves ” ,however “additional reserves” can only possibly be achieved when, they , the bank steals further sums of principal from we the people pretending to loan that sum of principal into circulation on our personal but falsified debts, before any bond is issued to extort further money out of circulation or steal pension funds to service an artificial debt, federal or state debt thats mathematically impossible to pay down .

      QE it generally a central bank using what has already been stolen as a means to settle inter banking debt, essentially ending up back in the possession of a central bank anyhow , simply because there is a break in the money laundering chain, where industry & commerce can no longer service their own falsified debts to local banks, let alone pay down federal or state debt servicing an irreversible multiplication of artificial debt by further unwarranted taxation etc rendering the federal debt & or a bail out process inept , thus QE merely keeps the banks doors open at the end of the day , much like a bailout but its bypassing the federal debt process altogether for reasons I have already stated here , so at the end of the day QE is only keeping the banks / money laundering office’s open so the local banks can steal & launder the represented value of whats left of all our industry & commerce by simply pretending to loan further sums of principal & continue to charge every one unwarranted interest for the privilege of being robbed on what are clearly falsified debts , therefore concluding banking ” public or private ” equates to a monumental crime of theft & one big money laundering racket , designed to terminate itself upon subsequent cycles of perpetual re-inflation by a means of federal & state debt with the exception of QE & the major portion of banking bailouts of course that more than often don’t re-inflate a however already deficient circulation nor can this possibly increase the value of money & property, its Mathematically impossible so long as we are paying principal & interest out of a general circulation thats only ever comprised of some remaining principal , nevertheless destroying everyones credit worthinesses one by one, thus as a result dispossessing or robbing everyone’s property & wealth in the end , public & private , including millionaires & billionaires , unless of course your a direct shareholder in central bank which will be the only bank left standing holding all the loot.

      And finally don’t think for one second your not all paying principal & interest to a bank even if you haven’t an alleged loan folks, because all the interest industry & commerce pays to thieving banks above the sum of principal is logically passed on to the consumer as an added cost in the resulting price of all goods & services, hence interest today is not only artificially inflating prices but its the primary cause of most If not all price inflation on a whole today, artificial in nature, while the true value of all money & property is being stolen right under your nose to irreversibly multiply artificial debt that’s designed to dispossess everyone’s property & wealth ,ever since the very conception of banking which is a deception that dates right back to the ancient ruse of the money changers who are the current banks of today, contrary to the common misconception or LIE that irrationally assumes banks are just printing all this money out of nothing or thin air , which is a LIE perpetrated on a monumental scale & sadly repeated endlessly today, particularly by gold bugs or Austrian economic advocates who not only advocate banking exploitation at elevated rates of interest but clearly haven’t even a second grade math education, so you never ever see the banks first core crime against us, much less its second crime of unwarranted interest & as a result never ever see the very hand that steals from all of us.

      The U.S & most of its citizens, some who only believe they’re awake is therefore the BOE lapdog propaganda division , which ensures banking exploitation is imposed upon the world sadly.

      Hey, Go team America , fuck yeah, or is it the 4th Reich now ,Germany being the BOEs predecessor lapdog of course.

      Please take no offense if your an American who is genuinely awake or attempting to get to the real truth regarding banks, however I do suggest you have a look at our freedom of information request to the BOE who I might add refuses to answer the questions because they claim it will be too costly for the BOE to provide the information, so we ask the world & the BOE is a simple ” yes ” or ” no” answer too costly is it, or is the BOE evading what they cant possibly prove.
      https://australia4mpe.wordpress.com/category/freedom-of-information-request-to-the-bank-of-england/

      Likewise I suggest you see my Debate Challenge that no one on this planet will formally take on .
      https://australia4mpe.wordpress.com/category/mpe-debate-challenge/

      Banks vs MPE Illustrations, keeping in mind logic tells us a bond cant be issued unless one of us issues a promissory obligation first, therefore any security of value can only be derived from the very first thing issued ( ie: our promissory obligations ) that has the only consideration of value.
      https://australia4mpe.wordpress.com/category/banks-vs-mpe-illustrations/

      I mean is the gold in the video above not evidence of a theft? anyone who takes the word of a banker or a banking advocate as the whole truth & nothing but the truth should be admitting themselves into the local psychiatric ward, seriously, who of sound mind would trust the word of a thief, particularly for over 45 years now, we have proven already these treasonous individuals are nothing but thieves & or accessories to theft.

      Dave

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